tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post114226306108869818..comments2023-10-09T09:05:09.554-04:00Comments on Attention Span: What's Wrong With Church - Doctrinerev-edhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11706159606370268576noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142538651907515642006-03-16T14:50:00.000-05:002006-03-16T14:50:00.000-05:00Are you done yet?!? Oh yea, I said I wouldn't nag...Are you done yet?!? Oh yea, I said I wouldn't nag....juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03724497030245209599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142518670150088782006-03-16T09:17:00.000-05:002006-03-16T09:17:00.000-05:00julie, for you I'll put it on the agenda. I'm just...julie, for you I'll put it on the agenda. I'm just not promising a publication date! :)rev-edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11706159606370268576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142472838290710782006-03-15T20:33:00.000-05:002006-03-15T20:33:00.000-05:00I'd be interested in the six major heresies. (but ...I'd be interested in the six major heresies. (but I won't nag)juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03724497030245209599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142434921169822832006-03-15T10:02:00.000-05:002006-03-15T10:02:00.000-05:00I think the Trinity is essential because it is the...I think the Trinity is essential because it is the nature of God. I've often heard that cults and heresies begin with the confusion of the nature of God, and I believe that is true. Besides the fact that these issues were settled hundreds and hundreds of years ago at the expense of many lives. If you want to develop a new appreciation for the doctrine of the Trinity, go back and see the mess of heresy which arose because the doctrine of the Trinity had not yet been worked out.<BR/><BR/>Maybe I ought to blog something on the six major heresies. Maybe I'd better finish up what's on my plate now... ;)rev-edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11706159606370268576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142432202684833202006-03-15T09:16:00.000-05:002006-03-15T09:16:00.000-05:00Doug - you know, after I wrote that the Spirit rea...Doug - you know, after I wrote that the Spirit really convicted me. Because the issue of the Trinity being essential is one that I have been wrestling with, as well. Not sure it's essential, not sure it isn't. Still wrestling.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08900874017388094590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142396857210144032006-03-14T23:27:00.000-05:002006-03-14T23:27:00.000-05:00Thanks for all the comments, folks.Catharine, I've...Thanks for all the comments, folks.<BR/><BR/>Catharine, I've taken a post to reflect on the things you said in your previous comment. I hope you read it, as I mean every word of it.<BR/><BR/>As to this comment, you are right that there are many who claim their Christianity only when it benefits them. If that were me, I'd be more careful considering myself an actual Christian.<BR/><BR/>However your experience seems to have tainted your view of what evangelical Christianity is all about. We bear no resemblance to Freddie Phelps and the hate squad from Kansas. Hate and true intolerance are not the norm and it is hardly true that "its not cool to question the Church or anyone in it," as that seems to be the expected standard these days. It sounds like you spent some time with some extreme fundamentalists who tend to give Christ a bad name. All over the country, denominations are awash in argument over social issues rather than spiritual issues. Perhaps it's tough for you to know that outside of the Christian church. I really didn't think we did such a great job of covering that up though...<BR/><BR/>And the problem is not an exaltation of John or Paul as opposed to Jesus. There is no disagreement between John, Paul and Jesus. There are simply people who twist the Bible into saying what they want it to say. Christians, deists, hedonists and atheists are all guilty of that.<BR/><BR/>I'm glad you stopped by, and I hope you get a chance to read the whole series.rev-edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11706159606370268576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142365230484529002006-03-14T14:40:00.000-05:002006-03-14T14:40:00.000-05:00Thanks for arguing for doctrine in the church! My ...Thanks for arguing for doctrine in the church! My argument in my book <I>The Recovery of Doctrine in the Contemporary Church</I> was that our starting point was in figuring out what doctrine is. Many of the folks who argue against the centrality of doctrine think it's only a list of arbitrary and outdated beliefs, with no relevance for Christian life, either individually or corporately. If that's all it is, then we might as well chunk it. My argument is that doctrine enables the church to participate in the ongiong work of God in history. Thus where there is no doctrine, or distorted, messed up doctrine, there will be spotty participation in the work of God.Read the book for the whole argument.Richard Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04787755397416393855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142300451826430812006-03-13T20:40:00.000-05:002006-03-13T20:40:00.000-05:00I've been anxiously awaiting this series, Ed. Doc...I've been anxiously awaiting this series, Ed. Doctrine is definately a sticky point in today's church - feast or famine more or less.<BR/><BR/>Can't wait for the next post!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142288677450656882006-03-13T17:24:00.000-05:002006-03-13T17:24:00.000-05:00How do you teach a "Christian worldview" when ther...How do you teach a "Christian worldview" when there is no one Christian worldview. While many Christians try and lead Christ-like lives, many more have no interest in that, but merely use their "Christianity" as a ticket to the circus. Nowadays, its not cool to question the Church or anyone in it. <BR/><BR/>Even rational, decent christians are almost afraid to speak up and tell radical evangelicals who spout a philosophy of hate and intolerance to sit down and be quiet, lest their membership be revoked or disparaged.<BR/><BR/>How do you teach a doctrine when the one person on whose doctrine the Church should have been founded (Christ) is largely ignored in favor of the teachings of Paul or John? It can be confusing for a layperson -- particularly a female layperson who had to leave a "doctrine" that told her basically that her place in the Church (and the church) was to sit down and shut up and do what the men around her said do.<BR/><BR/>So not the woman for that... so not... <BR/><BR/>~C~The Catharine Chronicleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04091573659382127496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142284556998918512006-03-13T16:15:00.000-05:002006-03-13T16:15:00.000-05:00How do we get people to change? You're asking a pr...How do we get people to change? You're asking a preacher how to get people to change??? If I only knew... :D<BR/><BR/>I'll touch on that again later.rev-edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11706159606370268576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142283396789392402006-03-13T15:56:00.000-05:002006-03-13T15:56:00.000-05:00Amen, Rev. Doug's question summed up part of mine....Amen, Rev. Doug's question summed up part of mine. I will try to re-word the other part: You and I agree that the issue of tongues is debateable. There are many people, though, who believe it is essential doctrine. We can't convince them otherwise. So how do we get churches to stop majoring in the minors, so to speak? Maybe you just haven't got that far yet.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08900874017388094590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142280448206934852006-03-13T15:07:00.000-05:002006-03-13T15:07:00.000-05:00Jennifer, I don't know what you mean by "undoctrin...Jennifer, I don't know what you mean by "undoctrinal". By definition, doctrine is doctrinal. So I'm not sure what you're asking. So I'll answer Doug's point and see if that answers yours also. OK?<BR/><BR/>Who determines what the essentials are? I think it's obvious that God determines that, but it's up to man to discover it. There are historic essentials of the faith which are basic and for the most part have been universally orthodox. The list which I mention and Jennifer repeats are essentials. These must be defended and taught. <BR/><BR/>Beyond that point, we as Christians must be able to truly debate the differences, but not to assert that people with an opposing view are "out of the Kingdom" or any such nonsense. The church claiming that NIV-toters aren't reading the "real Bible" is part of what is wrong with the church. Charismatics who claim that I'm not saved because I don't speak in tongues is part of what is wrong with the church. Since that is my focus with this series, that is my context. If we want to "fix" the church, we have to be more accepting of those who differ from us on "non-essential" matters. The historic essentials are the place to draw the line. Denominational distinctions are not. We're all working on the same team, but too many people are hit by "friendly fire."rev-edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11706159606370268576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142277129110119942006-03-13T14:12:00.000-05:002006-03-13T14:12:00.000-05:00Each church has the right to define it’s own creed...Each church has the right to define it’s own creeds and even “rules of membership” any way they want to. <BR/>If a church believes so strongly that the KJV is the only right Bible to use, is it wrong to dismiss that as undoctrinal? If a woman attending a Baptist church accepts the Lord and finds herself speaking in tongues, is that undoctrinal? It is in the Baptist church, but not others. So how do you define what is essential doctrine? I agree with you that the Trinity, the reliability of Scripture, man's depravity, salvation without Jesus, and the physical resurrection of Christ are imperative. But how do you actually definte doctrine? How do you tell someone their doctrine is undoctrinal?Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08900874017388094590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142269737945962432006-03-13T12:08:00.000-05:002006-03-13T12:08:00.000-05:00Good work as usual, Ed! While legalism is a trap w...Good work as usual, Ed! While legalism is a trap we must avoid, sound doctrine is our foundation.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05635426740700809467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10158261.post-1142268343658930462006-03-13T11:45:00.000-05:002006-03-13T11:45:00.000-05:00Doctrine, while not glitzy, is essential for growt...Doctrine, while not glitzy, is essential for growth in any direction. I think people get queasy about doctrine because it can be devisive, but it really shouldn't be. It should be knowledge by which we know Him better!juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03724497030245209599noreply@blogger.com